"around five p.m." or "at around 5 p.m." (2024)

M

marrisol

Member

German - Swiss

  • Nov 29, 2009
  • #1

Hello all,

my question might be a typical case of splitting hairs since it doesn't make much of a difference whether or not you use the preposition "at"... but just out of curiosity, can anybody tell me if both of the following sentences are gramatically correct?

1) It gets dark at around 5 p.m.
2) It gets dark around 5 p.m.

Personally, I would opt for sentence 1) since we generally use "at" when referring to specific times of the day but I believe to have heard sentence 2) more often.

I'd be happy to hear some of your opinions!

  • M

    MichaelW

    Senior Member

    English (British)

    • Nov 29, 2009
    • #2

    I'm equally happy with either.

    M

    marrisol

    Member

    German - Swiss

    • Nov 29, 2009
    • #4

    Thank you both for your answers!

    B

    Balteau

    New Member

    American Sign Language & English

    • May 14, 2010
    • #5

    I have a question about "around to", let me give you an example. "I will be in office around to noon." Does this mean I will be in office until noon?

    M

    MJSinLondon

    Senior Member

    London

    English - UK (London)

    • May 14, 2010
    • #6

    Balteau said:

    I have a question about "around to", let me give you an example. "I will be in office around to noon." "around five p.m." or "at around 5 p.m." (1)
    Does this mean I will be in office until noon?

    No, this is not correct English (BE anyway).

    "I will be in the office until around noon" means I am in the office now and will stay there until about 12.00. I may leave a little before or a little after 12.00.

    "I will be in the office around noon" means something different. It says nothing about where I am at the moment. But I will be in the office later, at about 12.00, although I am not specifying the time exactly.

    I cannot think of a sentence including the phrase " around to" except something like "I wonder whether the gardener will be around to cut the grass this afternoon"; But in that sentence, the words 'around' and 'to' are not really linked as a phrase.

    Last edited:

    B

    Balteau

    New Member

    American Sign Language & English

    • May 14, 2010
    • #7

    Thank you for immediate response to my question. Someone sent me an email using "around to noon" confused me. Now I am all cleared. Thanks!

    M

    mrandrewlally

    New Member

    English

    • Jun 20, 2016
    • #8

    I disagree that using both prepositions are necessary.
    It either gets dark

    around

    5pm or it gets dark

    at

    5pm.
    The first is general and allows some latitude for the time of sunset. The second is specific and doesn't allow for a few minutes before or after.
    Based on Orwell's 6 rules of English, one of these prepositions is redundant, not needed and should be cut from the phrase. Why do we need 2 prepositions when 1 will do?
    I would always delete the "at", unless it's specifically at that time, like "sunset was at 5.03pm on Monday, 20 November."

    Andygc

    Senior Member

    Devon

    British English

    • Jun 20, 2016
    • #9

    mrandrewlally said:

    I disagree that using both prepositions are necessary.

    That's what is known as a straw man. Nobody said that using both prepositions is necessary. I also didn't realise that Orwell was a rule-making authority on English usage - he was, of course, entitled to his opinion. There is no rule of English to prevent the use of "It gets dark at around 5pm", and there is nothing ungrammatical about it. "It gets dark at {a time}" is correct. The phrase "around 5pm" is a time statement, exactly as is "approximately 5pm", and with the same meaning. I can't see anybody saying "It gets dark approximately 5pm", can you?

    e2efour

    Senior Member

    England (aged 79)

    UK English

    • Jun 20, 2016
    • #10

    At around 5 o'clock and Around 5 o'clock are, of course, acceptable. Perhaps around is preferred in AE.

    The Orwell rule is If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out. (See George Orwell - Politics and the English Language - Essay)

    His rules are certainly worth reading and he is as much entitled to state them as some grammarians.
    But he falls into the same trap that people who lay down rules sometimes fall into: he sometimes breaks them.

    In the text I quoted from he writes Never use the passive where you can use the active.
    But in the second paragraph of the text, he writes "Modern English, especially written English, is full of bad habits which spread by imitation and which can be avoided if one is willing to take the necessary trouble."

    So much for this rule! "around five p.m." or "at around 5 p.m." (4)

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    "around five p.m." or "at around 5 p.m." (2024)

    FAQs

    "around five p.m." or "at around 5 p.m."? ›

    There is no rule of English to prevent the use of "It gets dark at around 5pm", and there is nothing ungrammatical about it. "It gets dark at {a time}" is correct. The phrase "around 5pm" is a time statement, exactly as is "approximately 5pm", and with the same meaning.

    Is it around 5pm or about 5pm? ›

    So, a time of day, a point in the day or a specific o'clock, a specific a.m. or p.m. time, we can use "around" before that, just as we used "about." So, again, "around" and "about" have the same function in these sentences.

    Is it on 5pm or at 5pm? ›

    In general, the preposition on is often used for places and or locations. There is really no definite rule nor formula for choosing a preposition and this can be a tremendous challenge for English language learners. Usually we use at with: Clock times: "at 5:00 pm"

    Is it on 7pm or at 7pm? ›

    At or on? We use at to talk about public holidays and weekends, but when we talk about a particular special day or weekend, we use on.

    Which is correct at 4pm or by 4pm? ›

    Always use the preposition at with time. So - see you at 4pm. More examples: I eat breakfast at 8am. I go to bed at 11pm.

    What does "around 5 pm" mean? ›

    AT = precisely 5 pm. AROUND = shortly before or after 5 pm.

    What does around 8AM mean? ›

    around 8AM or "approximately 8AM" refers to an approximate time. So there's no reason why around 8AM could not be the complement of at in its temporal sense: I go to work at around 8AM.

    Is it at 3pm or by 3pm? ›

    In terms of language, however, 'at 3 pm' simply means at that time. But 'by 3pm' means more than that. It means before 3 pm or at the time or not later than.

    Is it at or on 4pm? ›

    Always use the preposition at with time. So - see you at 4pm. More examples: I eat breakfast at 8am. I go to bed at 11pm.

    What is the correct grammar for on time? ›

    'on time' means 'at the arranged or correct time', whereas the phrase 'in time' means 'before it's too late'. Now, you are probably wondering when to use these phrases, so let's start with 'on time'. We generally use 'on time' for something that has a fixed time every day, or a plan that we have arranged previously.

    Is it 2pm or 2 00pm? ›

    In addition, when writing the times 1:00 pm, 2:00 pm, etc., it is perfectly acceptable to omit the zeroes and write 1 pm, 2 pm, instead. Finally, note that while in the US we use a 12-hour clock, some countries use a 24-hour clock, or military time.

    Is it 7am or 7 am or 7 am? ›

    Two periods are used. It is 7 a.m., not 7 am.

    Is it on 8pm or at 8pm? ›

    “At” is used in reference to specific times on the clock or points of time in the day. “In” usually refers to period of time. And “on” is used with dates and named days of the week. And “by” is used specifically with an end point of time and it means no later than.

    Is it by 9pm or at 9pm? ›

    “At" is far more specific, and denotes the exact time something will happen. “By” denotes the latest time something can happen. Think of the difference between an appointment and a deadline. If the party starts at 9pm and you arrive at 8, you're doing it wrong.

    What is 4pm called? ›

    Afternoon 12:01 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Late afternoon 4:00 pm to 5:00 pm. Early evening 5:00 pm to 7:00 pm. Dusk around sunset Evening 5:00 pm to 9:00 pm.

    What do you say at 4pm? ›

    For example, “Good morning” is generally used from 5:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. whereas “Good afternoon” time is from 12:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. “Good evening” is often used after 6 p.m. or when the sun goes down.

    What does "around 11am" mean? ›

    The expression “around 11” is only used by people who are careless of their own and other's time. It could refer to 11 AM or 11 PM, and when it does, around 11 typically means later rather than earlier. Nobody who uses this expression shows up at 10:45.

    What does "around 3pm" mean? ›

    At around 3pm means at approximately 3pm. At 3pm ideally means at 3pm exactly.

    When to use around and about? ›

    Around means “in the vicinity of” and is usually used with a specific location. For example: I looked around the park for my keys. About means “in the vicinity of” or “in relation to” and can be used with a more general location or an idea. For example: I heard about a new restaurant in town.

    What does around mean in time? ›

    “around this time" means “about now" e.g “The shop should be open around this time.” “This time around" means a situation or action has happened before, and is now happening, or about to happen again.

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